Phyllis Eleanor Tichinin has always struggled to have her contrary voice heard amongst the mainstream. Raised rurally in the once fruit-filled Santa Clara Valley, she earned her education as a soil scientist and environmental manager at the University of California Davis. Now in New Zealand, she raised her two children on her deceased husband’s family farm. She is currently involved in consulting and activism to remove biocides from our food supply and environment.

During her studies with Influence Ecology, Phyllis discovered how to have her voice heard. As we teach it, the marketplace is indifferent to us and our aims. If we want our voice (or invitations, offers, and requests) heard, we might need to understand how to excite or agitate the indifference in others–to awaken them from their stupor. Like many who study here, there comes a time when the fact of an indifferent marketplace is accepted. We recommend that you don’t wage battle with gravity or indifference; you’ll lose. Instead, you must learn to work with it.

So how do you and I transact in an indifferent world? In this interview, you’ll hear more.